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A bit snowed under, a bit. đ
But yes! At the start and up till the effective turning point deliberately brought on by her parents almost catching her in Abbyâs bed, she was extremely loving and affectionate, she was in love with her girlfriend and showed it, thatâs all. It was nice and really provide a bunch of moments of them in the first half.
Heh, well, they may need another movie then, lol, this one didnât really seem to do the trick too well. I thought the effect of it was clear, that everything she was doing was tied into it, but…well. Which, thatâs kind of interesting, the response to the other closeted characters. Iâll just use this next ask for that.
And another anon:
I donât see the difference between Harper and April. So I think the issue people see with Harper is more shipping than the story
You know, I was thinking about this earlier and actually took part of my answer out of another reply to put in this one. Despite some grumblings about April, and of course taking away just how many more people seemed to be aware of and watched HS, April didnât get nearly the vitriol. And watching The Wilds now, a certain character, as well, I expect there will be some people who wonât like her but it wonât be the same thing at all.Â
I think itâs so many things at once, April is–probably meaner than Harper ever was, but that was before they were in a relationship? And people will excuse that kind of meanness more? The expectations were also completely different, we didnât even know what TBH was gonna be about, itâs a silly show and the high school bully is kind of an archetype weâve come to accept and indeed, ship with the protag (Quinn, Paris)? Kinda weird when you think about it but I guess theyâre more easily accepted as these wild, absurd universes? Which, I thought HS established too, that silly story from Michelle Buteauâs tour guide to start things off, then the way Abby and Harper were chased away from the roof, then Johnâs tracking joke. It was meant to be a silly, exaggerated world. But I guess people took it more seriously?
Longevity and coming to know April over a season probably helped too. Age also, high schoolers are trapped in a different way that people are more sympathetic toward than for people in their 20s or older and plus, people expect less from high schoolers in terms of maturity and responsible, forward-thinking decision making. And indeed, a fair number of people who didnât forgive Harperâs actions toward Abby did leave out what she did to Riley, gotta acknowledge that. But not everyone. đź
I dunno, heh. Itâs a lot of things, I guess, but I do think that there is an expectation to come out in high school or college and the later you put it off, the less sympathy you get, itâs seen as hurting yourself, your partner, your community.
Yeah! You really canât say the time and scope for these stories is over and then be like THAT about closeted people??Â
And for real, I was so taken aback by who I was seeing these comments from! It wasnât homophobes, it wasnât even just those people whose whole shtick is snark and cattiness, it was people who say things like, everyoneâs journey is different, this coming out day remember the people canât come out now, donât excuse people for so and so action but have compassion for them, it was really hurtful and was like that one quote from that popular Tumblr post? Where you suddenly feel unwelcome where you thought you had friends? This is our own community…
I saw people call Harper straight! What?? That she shouldnât have a gf at all, sheâs a coward for not coming out, sheâs too old to be going through this, and then worse, not even about this fictional character but about closeted people in general, this is why you shouldnât date closeted people above a certain age, this is why you shouldnât date them at all.Â
A lot of the discussion has already covered the fact that these opinions are coming from people who were closeted themselves, but I think in some ways that actually makes it worse? Because thereâs a sense of, well, I did it, so why canât they? Despite the differences in not just circumstances but culture and priorities and just people individually.Â
Right, that is the literal storyline, that a usually loving gf reaches her lowest point in these circumstances. Sorry, by this point, Iâm kind of repeating the same thing, thereâs only so much to be said, especially when most of this ask is my own quote (:P) but yeah, you canât disconnect the two things. And it is up to you how willing you are to forgive her actions but itâs a character who, the story itself says, acts badly only about this one thing, acknowledges and apologizes for that, and then spends at least 10 months making up for it. And itâs part of a genre where this happens, you donât take it seriously because you know itâs exaggerated, both the ups and downs.
Heh, I know youâre joking, but I do get that from their perspective, it isnât just a bad movie nor even one a big letdown as a highly anticipated big name holiday f/f romcom, but one with a damaging narrative. I just really, really disagree with that. đź
Also, now that youâve mentioned that and Clea DuVallâs recent hotness is on my mind…ought I watch the f/f stuff on Handmaidâs Tale… I can be tough about some things in media but sensitive about others…
First, sorry Iâm replying so late! Obviously I always wish I could answer earlier but some of these come off more time sensitive than usual. I do hope you feel better now even if…well, nothingâs really changed on that front, just time? Well, and as other anons pointed out, the news that the movie did really well for Hulu. And personally, I feel like Iâm seeing a kind of defense spring up to the initial onslaught, so thatâs nice.
And yeah, I was way more aggressive when I stated this earlier but have since calmed down and donât want anyone to feel like Iâm attacking them specifically, but we really have seen this again and again, even with more sympathetic characters. And you just canât separate her from her background and what created her, you canât be like, yeah, I feel sorry for all that but itâs no excuse, even though, agreed, itâs not an excuse! itâs explicitly understood to be bad, by everyone! Itâs just not shown as unforgivable? Which, is that so bad?
Thereâs just…you donât have to forgive her yourself, you just have to accept that not everyone will hold it against her. But some people canât do that to such a degree, they legit think the movie is objectively bad and harmful for suggesting it. đĄ
I agree that it doesnât excuse it, but I donât think the movie does, it completely places her in the wrong for it, we see Abbyâs hurt explicitly, and Harper does acknowledge and apologize for it. It seems a pretty straightforward implementation of how these things ought to go?
I also donât love coming out movies, but it was always clear thatâs what it was going to be so Iâm not sure why thatâs held against it. And thereâve been some popular shows and movies in the last couple of years that didnât even get to the happy ending part, let alone check off the other points of a cheesy Hallmark romcom. So I believe itâs more down to the individual project and execution than what it was or wasnât.
Iâve been trying to answer these in order but I think Iâll just address these all now so people donât think Iâm ignoring them.
And another anon:
[HS] for me it’s not that she wasn’t out to her family that was the issue, it was throwing Abby into the situation headfirst and not telling her what was happening until it was too late for her to back out. she didn’t give Abby a choice in the matter at all, and that’s why I think a lot of people are looking at her and going “wow, she is NOT a good girlfriend.” (also ditching her at home to go out with her friends. I don’t even do that with platonic guests!)
Hmm, to me those are divided into several actions.
First, I did read it as giving her a choice. I had actually watched the trailer and thought it was full of some corny funny moments but later had literally said to a friend, I donât know if Iâll like this, why did she even invite her to begin with and she doesnât tell her till theyâre at her house? Howâre they going to explain that? And that was the impression we were all getting at that stage and people were still happily expectant.
But then the movie itself covered all those bases, she invited her because she was caught up in the moment, once she came to her senses she started regretting it and wanted to get out of it till Abby was like, I want to meet your family so she gave in, still clearly iffy about it, and like, nobody is saying Harper made the best choice at every moment, she very much did not, but not only was that the premise of the story, it was part of her character arc as well? She then did tell Abby and it was up to Abby to actually go or not. Yes, Harper made her case and it would have been hard for Abby to say no, but because she loves Harper and at the time, they both genuinely thought itâd work, Harper wasnât like, Iâm gonna make it horrible for her when I get there, why and how would that even work. People try to do things and then canât, thatâs not a moral failing. But truly, I think their relationship was such that Abby could have said no, I donât want to do this, and Harper would have driven her back.
And as for the ditching and her not being a good gf, to me thatâs a different action and born of the stress of the time. I donât think you can separate that from everything else going on, weâre made up of everything that goes into us and as Abby herself pointed out, sheâs a different person here, how sheâs behaving here isnât how sheâs been for at least the last year with her.
And another anon:
Hey, so I get your point about Happiest Season. However, as a closeted muslim who hides everything ,this is my issue with it, let’s say for the sake of the movie we keep the fact that harper brings her girlfriend home even though she’s closeted. The flirting with the ex bf, hanging with friends and leaving abby alone was unnecessary. Bringing her gf home when she’s closeted is just not a good story line in general. I wish they had gone with a much more classic, cliche rom com idea ya know
Adding a cut for the answer to this last one because of length:
I think by the time we got to the ex and hanging out with friends and leaving Abby alone stage, it was to indicate Harper hitting her low. Like, she didnât start the weekend like that, right, she started it off checking in on her routinely, in her basement room, at the restaurant, this was something that got progressively worse. I think maybe some people are reading her doing all that, the shitty gf stuff, as what she simply wanted to do, but to me, it was clearly part of her downward spiral. Thatâs what she was referring to in the suffocating convo, it was all pressing down on her. She had thought, when she suggested the plan, that she could do it, look after Abby while stay the same perfect daughter she was every holiday, but it just wasnât possible, at least not for her. It was easier to be one or the other and she was wrongly choosing the perfect daughter role, and as a person (and a fictional character), itâs hard to compartmentalize everything perfectly. There are whole I Love Lucy episodes devoted specifically to show how the best laid plans fall apart. đ
And so, choosing the perfect daughter role had to come to a head, it WAS needed for the sake of the movie because without it, what would be the clear stages of her journey, how would we see how it was affecting her as well? As I said above, it feels like some people think itâs just Harper perpetuating these actions, and yes, what she did to Abby is something she did to her, no excuse, but sheâs also a victim of background? These are not power games sheâs playing for the fun of it, in what world would she not just be happy to be out with her gf and have her parents continue to love her? Abby literally says Harperâs terrified of what the people there think, thatâs all a part of her getting more wound up and tense. If we didnât see the results of her being closeted, itâd remove much of the plot, but would go against the specific aim of how coming out was such a positive big brave step for her (which as you know, I donât even necessarily agree with, in terms of general messaging, though, yes, it was what specifically Harper wanted and needed).
Iâve seen people talk about POV and framing and maybe that would have made the audience more sympathetic to Harper, but I guess I donât see why it was necessary, and as Iâve mentioned, we have seen that with other characters and it didnât really win them much sympathy. And then also, Harper needed to act that way to show why Abby would be fed up and leave, to then get to the last climactic stage of the movie. Otherwise itâd be like, well, the plan you agreed to is going fine, why not just wait till she comes out after?
And heh, I guess you can say itâs not a good storyline in general, though that seems pretty subjective, but it didnât really trick us into thinking it was something else.
Um. I think she is, but I realize now Iâm not sure? I might have just missed the ep where they revealed that, but from what Iâve observed, Mayaâs attitude seems to imply her sexuality wasnât an issue, it was more what her father considered a distraction or not. Like the flashback example in high school, it seemed more that anything taking away from track was what bothered him so it bothered her. Add to that his abuse and she was emotionally stunted and prioritized flings over relationships. Like, Iâm sure her father was homophobic, not overtly but in how he saw women, and probably would have made snide remarks, but no relationship was probably serious enough for Maya to take anyone home. I assume, haha.Â
We did definitely see her mom realize Carina was Mayaâs romantic something in the office and while her reaction wasnât, omg, youâre bi, it did also take her several guesses to realize, so I also canât tell if it wasnât just omg, I learned something new about my daughter, I have to not make a big deal because she wonât like it.Â
I just donât think weâll get a coming out arc for Maya, is what Iâm saying.Â
Ohhh, I see. Thatâs disappointing indeed. i do get that these are shows under their own showrunners and networks donât really control decisions at this level, but still, considering the positive exposure and media praise they were getting for multiple ships last year, pretty sad.
Hmm, yeah, I see a few clips for them but nothing in English but what exactly is happening thatâs so bad?