Yes, I did see some of that! They were VERY cute, I really liked them for the first chunk of the series, when they were both the solid comfortable couple offering advice and stuff, but also going through their little transitions, like that first ILY. And she definitely added a lot of charm to that relationship. Was pretty disappointed with how it all ended up.
As someone who’s watching In the Dark: Jess didn’t sleep with Felix, she stopped when he pulled down his boxers and she said something along the lines “I’m SO gay”. Even though they made clear Jess is indeed a lesbian I wasn’t happy with the scene. It was so unnecessary: Jess wasn’t questioning her sexuality, it didn’t add anything to the storyline. Maybe the writer was also smoking pot writing that scene…
Oh, thanks for clarifying! And yes, even getting to this point JUST so they can make that joke…meh.
And another anon:
Lmao I was actually the one that started watching Bc of ur gifset ? But I knew the possibilities when I started another cw show lol. I’m 100% uninterested in any arc where Jess realizes she’s bi after being completely biphobic and secure in her identity as a lesbian. It’s bad messaging all around. And just plain bad writing. I’m so sick of storylines where lesbians gotta prove they’re gay by fucking a dude or where sexuality is only fluid for lesbians. I get ppl can be fluid irl, but still.
Oh lol, whoops. Glad you don’t hold it against me. 😛 And it looks like it isn’t Jess discovering she’s bi, but it still doesn’t help anything. Just, what even was the point… Gotta reinforce she’s a lesbian by having her actively not sleep with a man on screen?
Yup, dismissive of bisexuality to the end, along w having a lesbian fuck a guy Bc lesbians gotta sleep w dudes if they’re being a Nice Guy™ right?? Like!! Esp disgusting after they had the arc where Jess admits she’s never slept w a dude Bc she knew she was gay & was uninterested in men. Smfh. Idgaf if she was high or drunk, it makes it all grosser. I had a feeling it was coming Bc last couple eps had her & Felix solo hanging out, but I’m still a little surprised tbh. Thx for letting me vent lol
Yep, insulting to everyone. I thought it was coming, after that one ep where Murphy had to feel a dead body so they camped out at Felix’s house and then also when she helped him order weed, but after both those times they retreated away from it and I was like, they know better, they wouldn’t do that. Hmph.
To give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they’ll have her come to terms with her own crappy attitude toward Vanessa, and she’ll realize she’s bi, but the road to getting here, after making such a big deal about her being a lesbian. It’s a terrible look. And no problem about the venting, I get that there aren’t many people watching and actually, I remember someone mentioning watching because I posted a gifset, so, I gotta take responsibility. 😛
If u don’t mind the spoilers, it was seriously such bushit that I’m done even if they didn’t sleep together (which. I’m pretty sure they did Bc she was going for his belt when I turned it off). Jess told Vanessa that she cheated on her, then they broke up. Vanessa was devastated & crying about it, later Felix said Jess only cheated Bc she knew her relationship w Vanessa wasn’t going anywhere & Jess agreed. So they break up, but were still talking. (1/?)
So then Jess told Vanessa they’re breaking up Bc it was only fun for Vanessa & she needed more, & Vanessa said she couldn’t give her that (WHICH. JESS WAS THE ONE THAT CHEATED, WHY WAS VANESSA APOLOGETIC.) Also wtf was this arc! They legit said ily to each other & started out serious/domestic, then it went to as if they were just fooling around, then it went to Jess treating her like shit & Vanessa suddenly flighty/aloof?! Oh, & then Jess was upset Vanessa went back on tinder. Garbage plots.
I absolutely don’t mind the spoilers in this case, and I can understand you wanting to vent with the details, that sounds atrocious. I’m genuinely disappointed, I thought the CW had decided to do better in its f/f and in the last three years had stopped making two of its largest mistakes. It’s not just that it’s bad rep, it’s just bad writing? Flipping back and forth like that, characters being unobservant and self-centered and OOC for the plot. “Only fun” for Vanessa…so they just stuck with that bizarre dismissive attitude toward bisexual people to the end, huh.
cw shows are so predictable that as soon as they start having a m/f friendship w solo scenes, u know exactly where it’s leading. SPoiler alert if ur not caught up on in the dark, but for real, as soon as CW shows start having a girl hang out w a guy, u know they’re setting up a hookup, even if the girl is a lesbian. ?? idk if Jess/ Felix actually slept together Bc I turned the ep off when they started making out, but in the dark did the fastest implosion of a lesbian arc I’ve seen so far.
Oh. I don’t like that.
I wasn’t caught up, actually, but you know, in an earlier ep, I’d been thinking, huh, the friendship between these two is nice but I hope that’s how it remains, because as you said, just having a guy and girl hang out, EVEN IF THE GIRL IS A LESBIAN. Wow. Even making out, why…after all the emphasis on Jess’s being a lesbian to the point of like, shaming her poor gf for ever having been with a guy. Wow. Damn. Now I’m going to be super slow to catch up, if I ever do. But thanks for letting me know, and this is certainly a discussion point.
Exactly! Such lazy writing! We do not need these shitty plots w lesbian/bi girls treating each other like shit! I’m sure they’ll end up going the “lesbian loses her bi gf Bc of her own insecurities” route and it’s so dumb. They’ve previously done some side-eye worthy stuff like Vanessa commenting on dick size & Jess feeling the need to buy a strap on, so I guess the insecurity didn’t come outta nowhere, but the way the plotline was handled & led to a cheating plot was absolute garbage. Ugh
And 100% agree that the writers didn’t need Jess lying to Vanessa to prop up Murphy. Murphy and Jess already had a great friendship. Having a lesbian treat her gf like shit, a girl she supposedly is in love with at that, and saying she could never treat her friend the same way is just gross. Almost as gross as the constant focus on “real” lesbians without acknowledging that bi women exist & aren’t thirsting to be w men when they’re in f/f relationships.
I don’t know if they’ll have Jess and Vanessa actually break up, everyone’s so messy, they might be able to get past it once it’s revealed, which surely it inevitably will be?. But maybe not, this might be the messiest thing someone “good” has done.
And so messy! I know she has her insecurities, that’s consistent, fine, and it’s not even bad character writing, I just don’t see why it would have led to cheating? We’re meant to think Jess is rattled, sure, and upset about Vanessa dismissing her concerns (which–they had to write Vanessa as suddenly flighty and dismissive too, huh), but she’s such a goody two shoes, this just seemed so contrived. To parallel her guilt about Wesley’s death, I get that, but are we really meant to equate her action of, what, being pressured to have a killer in her trunk for a few minutes and then not calling the cops when he gets hit by a car with cheating? The writing in this ep was definitely more about serving plot than character.
And another anon:
The biphobia on In the Dark this episode is so annoying. I gave them a pass with the strap on storyline, because I thought it felt real and at least Jess’s insecurity was understandable given Vanessa’s comment, but this episode just reinforced the worries I had in the back of my head during that storyline. To me, the main issue isn’t even that Jess is acting biphobic, but that the writing is. They don’t even acknowledge that Vanessa is bi, they act like she can only be a lesbian or experimenting
Yes! That’s the weirdest part, that those are the only two things anyone on the show thinks Vanessa can be. I don’t care if characters act a certain way, that’s actually organic and natural writing. People have different opinions, or even when they know something in their head, their heart feels differently, but if it’s the only opinion presented and there isn’t even an effort made to question that? As I’ve said before, if it’s something that’s already clear cut in real life, cheating is bad, murder is bad, I don’t need that to be called out as bad, but when it’s something hazy, when too many people are ignorant about it, I can’t understand why anyone would reinforce it.
At this point I’m left to wonder if the writers actually think that themselves, if everything they write is with that approach.
Hell, it’s not even good writing to act like nobody in this group of young people knows what bisexuality is.
Spoiler alert if you’re not caught up on in the dark: not sure if you’re still watching it, but man, I’m annoyed with the newest ep. I know the focus was never on Jess/Vanessa, but I’m irritated that they went the cheating route with them and that Jess is embroiled in lying to the cops now. I really liked Jess & u know the lying will come back to bite her in the ass. And Jess/Vanessa are doomed Bc she cheated ugh there are zero f/f ships left again, even in the periphery. Need new f/f material.
Anon! I actually just finished watching it a little while ago and same! The lying to the cops part, I’m okay with that personally, that is just what the show is, people are going to get into and out of messes, and it gives her a plot and a reason to have her own screentime, but to Vanessa…and the whole “I could lie to the cops and Vanessa but not to you”, that diminishes her own relationship so much. You don’t have to prop up the main character THAT much, she doesn’t even need it! It’s a great friendship on its own.
Maybe she shouldn’t be with Vanessa, if she can cheat on her and lie to her. I like my ships but I like shipping my ships. I really do like Vanessa but if Jess isn’t that into her, then don’t keep her around as some poor fool or to watch this slowly become a toxic mess. But really, my issue isn’t with the fact that Jess doesn’t seem to treat Vanessa as well as she should, it’s that the show uses them for convenience. And I really did not like how they threw around “actual/real lesbian”. The show’s reinforcing Jess’s incorrect attitude of putting her insecurities on Vanessa. First they make Vanessa dismiss Jess’s concerns so they can argue and then they act like that’s because she’s bi??? As if real lesbia–I’m just tired of even discussing this. It was lazy and dumb writing and I think the show could have done better.
As for Wren, I get the sense that she won’t be sticking around Bc we haven’t seen anything specifically in her POV (unless that changed this ep, I’m behind one), which makes me think she’s likely gonna be a plot point in Maddie’s story but not be fully ingrained as her own character. Which kinda sucks, but I’m used to as far as f/f stories go, so outside the usual bad tropes I don’t think anytgings gonna be a deal breaker. At this point, I’m just so curious about all of their background lol
Oh, whoops, way late on answering this one–I mean, I’m late on all of them but I had actually meant to reply and then just forgot.
Obviously, she did end up sticking around, but her role really has been so much in service of Maddie’s, and below so many other characters, it would have been difficult to say what her future was going to be. She symbolized something so huge for Maddie that I don’t think they’d just have her walk away, but I had feared they would put her back in prison and that would be used to break Maddie. Really glad they didn’t do that!
And another anon:
Oh yeah, I totally wasn’t blaming u or anything! I’m really enjoying both shows and probably wouldn’t have picked them up if I hadn’t seen that there was f/f involved Bc I get bored if shows don’t have f/f, or at least revolve more around women lol. Idk, I’m still bitter about how Maggie was treated on spg, but other than that I think most shows just have peripheral f/f so it’s easy not to get as invested & take the show for what it is. So I’m just thankful u giffed Bc I’m enjoying new stories!
Oh, I didn’t think you were, I was just putting out disclaimers, heh.
I totally get you! For me, f/f is a really simple indicator of the treatment of wom–actually, that’s literally the Bechdel test? It was created to test the potential for f/f and is used as a shortcut to measure how feminist media is. I was literally just talking to a friend who feeds me f/f book recommendations and I was like, I don’t even necessarily need f/f, I just need it to not focus on men. Even a lot of female-oriented works with a female lead will make her main dynamic with a guy, which, m/f romance is a specific genre and that’s fine but not what I’m looking for.
In TV, it’s not a sure bet of anything nowadays because it’s almost a rule that any new show must have some LGBT, so like you said, it can be pretty peripheral. Not as rewarding if it goes well, not as hurtful if goes bad. Looks like Proven Innocent turned out well, although sidelined till the end, now we look to see how In the Dark goes (aside from even more sidelining). But both shows definitely do focus a lot on women and seem earnest about trying do well by underrepresented groups, so it makes them easier to watch as the actual plot unfolds.
I started watching in the dark and proven innocent Bc of your gifsets and I’m actually enjoying both so far, but I feel like both are gonna blow up on me eventually lol. In the dark Bc it’s the CW so that’s on brand, and proven innocent Bc it really does have an ominous thread to it. Maybe Bc I’m in shock that a show has a bi lead in a same sex relationship and she’s actually the main character and it seems too good to be true?? Plus the premise of the show?? But I already love Wren…
Oh, because of my gifsets? I’m flattered! But this is why I never actually straight up recommend the shows I gif, you just never know!
Actually, in the case of In the Dark, it feels rather not like a typical CW show? Not that that helps, in this case, that might actually be worse. But in terms of what’s on brand for the CW, the worst their f/f rep has suffered since 2016 (when they learned a LESSON) is poor screentime and lack of focus. No death and none of the especially offensive tropes. We can never be sure that might not change, maybe they (like other shows recently) will decide three years was enough of a moratorium, but I don’t fear a f/f death on the CW any more than any other network. And the ship here is so background, I don’t really see them getting much drama.
Proven Innocent is a very weird case. Like you, I am bewildered by how oddly central the f/f is. But at the same time, they do seem to minimize Wren herself. It’s almost as if Maddie having a gf is more important than the gf herself. But then other times they do focus on them together and her relationship with Wren kinda needs Wren to be present. It’s ominous, I think, because it’s such an earnest show that tries to cover such difficult topics and for them to matter, the stakes have to be high, so there’s no happy ending waiting.
But I don’t regret starting or watching them. I didn’t actually know there was going to be f/f in either when I started, which helps loads, watching a show for its own sake and not f/f, but also, I didn’t do anything wrong by expecting the shows to behave decently. If they mess up that’s on them.
Like, your question made me think about The Purge and Star, from which I giffed f/f that later went south. And looking back now, it’s easy to say, how did I expect them to be better, but I’ve really come to dislike how we put the blame on ourselves, “Why’d, I get into this? I should have known better, it’s my fault really”. As the stories were happening, they really did sell these pining, romantic ships. Not perfect, there was cheating and angst, but it was The Purge and Star, that’s just everything was. And then what went wrong wasn’t because of the cheating or angst, they just abruptly and with terrible writing, ended them. That’s on them.
I can’t just not watch everything in case it goes bad, then I’d watch nothing. And right after The Purge and Star, I got into a pretty goshdarn great ship, and I’d have missed a lot of the fun of watching a story unfold live if I’d waited to make sure it was “safe”. And even when I’m tentative about things, like I was with Will & Grace (and both these shows you mentioned, tbh), I’d still rather watch live and get at least some enjoyment before there’s nothing left to enjoy.
That’s me, anyway. I fully get that other people have other approaches and maybe for you, the comfort of knowing the fault is on the writers isn’t enough. I’ll keep giffing, in that case, and will let you know if a season ended in a good place. 😛
where can I watch In the Dark?? That gifset made me super giddy!!
It’s a CW show so you could probably actually watch it on their site as long as you can get a US IP: https://www.cwtv.com/shows/in-the-dark/
I don’t know that I’d recommend watching just for them, because they’re not the main characters, the show itself is about a misanthropic blind girl, Murphy, whose friend gets murdered but nobody believes her. One of the wlw in the gifset is the Murphy’s roommate (and also colleague) so she appears a fair amount and her girlfriend is often at their apartment but you know, overall, it’s not a lot of screentime. Honestly, I like the rest of the show too, I’d have watched even without the f/f, but I just wanted to be clear on that.