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Starting to think Happiest Season was needed WAY more than I realized, because apparently a lot of folks need to think about why being closeted *is* so agonizing a lot more. The whole *point of the movie* is that this behavior isn’t something natural for Harper, it’s not something she wants to do or would dream of doing under other circumstances – it’s what the situation is doing to her. It’s not a subtextual point! It’s right there! Closeting means doing stuff you hate yourself for!

Heh, well, they may need another movie then, lol, this one didn’t really seem to do the trick too well. I thought the effect of it was clear, that everything she was doing was tied into it, but…well. Which, that’s kind of interesting, the response to the other closeted characters. I’ll just use this next ask for that.

And another anon:

I don’t see the difference between Harper and April. So I think the issue people see with Harper is more shipping than the story

You know, I was thinking about this earlier and actually took part of my answer out of another reply to put in this one. Despite some grumblings about April, and of course taking away just how many more people seemed to be aware of and watched HS, April didn’t get nearly the vitriol. And watching The Wilds now, a certain character, as well, I expect there will be some people who won’t like her but it won’t be the same thing at all. 

I think it’s so many things at once, April is–probably meaner than Harper ever was, but that was before they were in a relationship? And people will excuse that kind of meanness more? The expectations were also completely different, we didn’t even know what TBH was gonna be about, it’s a silly show and the high school bully is kind of an archetype we’ve come to accept and indeed, ship with the protag (Quinn, Paris)? Kinda weird when you think about it but I guess they’re more easily accepted as these wild, absurd universes? Which, I thought HS established too, that silly story from Michelle Buteau’s tour guide to start things off, then the way Abby and Harper were chased away from the roof, then John’s tracking joke. It was meant to be a silly, exaggerated world. But I guess people took it more seriously?

Longevity and coming to know April over a season probably helped too. Age also, high schoolers are trapped in a different way that people are more sympathetic toward than for people in their 20s or older and plus, people expect less from high schoolers in terms of maturity and responsible, forward-thinking decision making. And indeed, a fair number of people who didn’t forgive Harper’s actions toward Abby did leave out what she did to Riley, gotta acknowledge that. But not everyone. 😮

I dunno, heh. It’s a lot of things, I guess, but I do think that there is an expectation to come out in high school or college and the later you put it off, the less sympathy you get, it’s seen as hurting yourself, your partner, your community.

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I just can’t get over this. All these people who whined about how we don’t need any more coming out stories, and then – like you said – turning around to say the most *appalling* weird and clueless stuff about closeted people; as if they’re somehow less queer because they’re not out. I’m so glad for your posts, honestly, I felt like I was the crazy one, seeing people I had thought of as thoughtful and compassionate just lay into Harper like she’s an unforgivable monster for being in?!?

Yeah! You really can’t say the time and scope for these stories is over and then be like THAT about closeted people?? 

And for real, I was so taken aback by who I was seeing these comments from! It wasn’t homophobes, it wasn’t even just those people whose whole shtick is snark and cattiness, it was people who say things like, everyone’s journey is different, this coming out day remember the people can’t come out now, don’t excuse people for so and so action but have compassion for them, it was really hurtful and was like that one quote from that popular Tumblr post? Where you suddenly feel unwelcome where you thought you had friends? This is our own community…

I saw people call Harper straight! What?? That she shouldn’t have a gf at all, she’s a coward for not coming out, she’s too old to be going through this, and then worse, not even about this fictional character but about closeted people in general, this is why you shouldn’t date closeted people above a certain age, this is why you shouldn’t date them at all. 

A lot of the discussion has already covered the fact that these opinions are coming from people who were closeted themselves, but I think in some ways that actually makes it worse? Because there’s a sense of, well, I did it, so why can’t they? Despite the differences in not just circumstances but culture and priorities and just people individually. 

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I think I watch too much wlw tv cos as soon as I saw Shelby and Toni going at it I was like … lesbians

Heh, I actually really like that we can now see and recognize actual buildup and tension in f/f storylines, this used to be an area in which we’d just be considered delusional for seeing any kind of subtext. And I also like that more and more, there actually is some buildup and not the writers rushing it and going there in a first ep.

And another anon:

I just finished the episode where Shelby and Toni kiss and as much as I knew it was coming/saw the build up, for me, the couple of the show should have been Rachel and Leah. Their chemistry those first few episodes was so good and even the tension I liked. It was an enjoyable season though. I did wish Fatin was the lead, she just super layered and hilarious. Also I just like how that actress played it!

Oh, I didn’t even think of that, I guess I was already waiting for Toni/Shelby, I didn’t think we’d get another pair, not even…heh, MY other pair, Dot/Fantin. I really did love Fantin, in all her laziness and unapologeticness and basic decency and kindness. The actress played her SO well, just making these dry observations, she was a joy to watch.

And another anon:

Was there a bet in the writing room of the wilds on how to make the lesbian characters more off putting? Pee, anger, dentures, shaved head. The only part of the show that i didn’t enjoy was these two, i prefer Toni with her first girlfriend they were cute and had more chemistry.

This is so uncharitable, anon. 😡 

They ALL looked messes by the end, and I’ll grant you the pee thing, lol, but anger? Especially for her background and these circumstances? Lots of them had their moments of anger, whole episodes, and by the end she was so chill. And dentures? People, even when young, can sometimes need them. There’s no need to make them even more self-conscious. And the shaved head was like, in a few scenes off the island and is just a style choice…

I feel like these are some very subjective biases you have, anon, and are stating them as general and factual. As with other recent discussions, you don’t have to like them or be attracted to them, you just have to buy that other people, including these two characters on a deserted island, would.

I did like the previous girlfriend, though! But the relationship was specifically written that way to be like, a one-ep backstory. If it was going to be a main thing, it would be written differently.

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Hey, I’m thinking of watching The Wilds but I feel like it’s gonna be really heavy. Can you tell me if it’s like really intense or a little more light hearted and easy to watch? Thanks!

Uh, it can be light hearted at times but each ep goes into a different girl’s backstory and they can be pretty rough, aside from what is also happening on the island. You start off with a 16 year old’s affair with this published famous author and a girl on the island dying and that kind of sets the tone. The rest of the eps can be tough to watch, especially because the premise itself is pretty cruel, but eps 8 and 9 personally were consecutive punches in the stomach, again referring to underage stuff to other characters and…I don’t know how much to spoil, but hard to watch in their own way.

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I watched an interview from the blonde actress(The Wilds) talking about her approach to her character and the words she chose to describe her role made me think hmm gay. So glad I’m right. I don’t watch trailers and was going to watch anyway, but I’m still happy I was right!

Heh, yeah, it was pretty obvious from just the promo, Toni was revealed to be gay off the bat and then a bunch more clips were her and Shelby. I kind of like how clear that was, even as something technically revealed late in the season, where two of the central characters are written for that from the start.