I am so fucking done with American tumblr rn.
When Ferguson etc happened, we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you.
When Charlie Hebdo and Germanwings happened, what do you…From what I can tell, OP (and other Europeans) isn’t angry specifically at the amount of sympathy posts – it’s the feeling that the victims are being disrespected by the derailment (“please, stop making this tragedy about yourselves”). That this is all they’re seeing on tumblr when they’re trying to grieve. And they’re right that the majority of posts (at least that I’ve seen) are about the copilot not being called a terrorist. I’ve seen several posts that go “he’s white, so they say it’s just depression”, without even a mention of the tragedy or victims. They’re grieving, but it seems a bit like all that a lot of Americans want to talk about is this issue that isn’t really related to what actually happened, and talk about it in a really American-centered way, and ignore the people who are affected.
It would be one thing if there was just a side note about how it might be different if he were Muslim. But for this to take over the whole topic does seem a bit callous. If people aren’t going to talk about the actual events, then I think for European users’ sakes, they should probably wait a week or two to bring up the comparison; just not talk about the crash. I don’t mean to dismiss Islamophobia at all – it’s a serious issue obviously – but I think that this might not be the best time and place. (And while it’s true that insensitivity on tumblr isn’t near as bad as the constant barrage that POC get, I don’t think it’s best to say “it could be worse for you” to people upset over a mass death.)
And I do think there is a problem on this site with being so America-centered. I’ve seen several European users complain about this – that Americans don’t (and don’t try to) understand that Europe might have a different history with terrorism than the U.S. He apparently was immediately checked for ties, because there are white terrorist groups (in Germany and throughout Europe) that no one hesitates to calls terrorists. I’m not going to speak for them on this subject, but I think listening gives a vital perspective.
And that seems to be (IMO) what the OP was pointing out with the Ferguson comparison – that she was willing to educate herself and listen to Americans, and respect our feelings (“we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you”), and not derail or turn it into something that we didn’t think was an issue.
Right, but how are people making this about themselves? Most people reblogging the Islamophobia post aren’t Muslim and Islamophobia is most definitely a European and German issue as well? I would suspect a number of the people reblogging aren’t even American.
To most people, these posts HAVE been just single notes, one thing they see on their dash that they’ve reblogged, and then moved past it. They may have seen it as the one remotely productive thing they could pass on from this pretty senseless tragedy. And that’s what I meant about the insensitivity, since it seems as if it’d have been okay for them to say these things if they’d also posted something about the victims. But as for the timing issue, who’s to say how long the period of mourning should be? One week, two weeks, someone could legitimately say three weeks is too soon.
I’m not sure I get how the different history of Europe when it comes to terrorism comes into play here, though. Nobody assumed he wouldn’t be checked for political or religious ties, making this a terrorist act, nor are white people excluded from that scrutiny in America. The point to make was, very simply, the observation that you see how he’s being treated right now? That is not what would have happened had he been Muslim, and the anger and grief you are feeling right now would have been turned on the Muslim community, and this is true for the US or Europe.
As for the Ferguson comparison, again, I don’t think that was a matter of grief, it wasn’t a request to cry with us but to spread the news of this injustice because no one else will. It wasn’t, “see this death and how unfair it was, mourn with us”, but that the whole situation that led to it is still there, the killer was supported by the authorities, there is no change being made to prevent this from happening again, and it has and will again and again, help us stop it. What is to there to be educated on in this pilot situation? Germany themselves are changing their airplane protocols and investigating how to better give mental health care. And also, since we’re talking about the understanding of European context, it would be relevant to point out that the US isn’t made of just one issue. Ferguson was a matter of anti-Black racism, while the conversation here is about Islamophobia. It hardly seems fair to throw this on Black Americans too.
I am so fucking done with American tumblr rn.
When Ferguson etc happened, we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you.
When Charlie Hebdo and Germanwings happened, what do you…From what I can tell, OP (and other Europeans) isn’t angry specifically at the amount of sympathy posts – it’s the feeling that the victims are being disrespected by the derailment (“please, stop making this tragedy about yourselves”). That this is all they’re seeing on tumblr when they’re trying to grieve. And they’re right that the majority of posts (at least that I’ve seen) are about the copilot not being called a terrorist. I’ve seen several posts that go “he’s white, so they say it’s just depression”, without even a mention of the tragedy or victims. They’re grieving, but it seems a bit like all that a lot of Americans want to talk about is this issue that isn’t really related to what actually happened, and talk about it in a really American-centered way, and ignore the people who are affected.
It would be one thing if there was just a side note about how it might be different if he were Muslim. But for this to take over the whole topic does seem a bit callous. If people aren’t going to talk about the actual events, then I think for European users’ sakes, they should probably wait a week or two to bring up the comparison; just not talk about the crash. I don’t mean to dismiss Islamophobia at all – it’s a serious issue obviously – but I think that this might not be the best time and place. (And while it’s true that insensitivity on tumblr isn’t near as bad as the constant barrage that POC get, I don’t think it’s best to say “it could be worse for you” to people upset over a mass death.)
And I do think there is a problem on this site with being so America-centered. I’ve seen several European users complain about this – that Americans don’t (and don’t try to) understand that Europe might have a different history with terrorism than the U.S. He apparently was immediately checked for ties, because there are white terrorist groups (in Germany and throughout Europe) that no one hesitates to calls terrorists. I’m not going to speak for them on this subject, but I think listening gives a vital perspective.
And that seems to be (IMO) what the OP was pointing out with the Ferguson comparison – that she was willing to educate herself and listen to Americans, and respect our feelings (“we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you”), and not derail or turn it into something that we didn’t think was an issue.
Right, but how are people making this about themselves? Most people reblogging the Islamophobia post aren’t Muslim and Islamophobia is most definitely a European and German issue as well? I would suspect a number of the people reblogging aren’t even American.
To most people, these posts HAVE been just single notes, one thing they see on their dash that they’ve reblogged, and then moved past it. They may have seen it as the one remotely productive thing they could pass on from this pretty senseless tragedy. And that’s what I meant about the insensitivity, since it seems as if it’d have been okay for them to say these things if they’d also posted something about the victims. But as for the timing issue, who’s to say how long the period of mourning should be? One week, two weeks, someone could legitimately say three weeks is too soon.
I’m not sure I get how the different history of Europe when it comes to terrorism comes into play here, though. Nobody assumed he wouldn’t be checked for political or religious ties, making this a terrorist act, nor are white people excluded from that scrutiny in America. The point to make was, very simply, the observation that you see how he’s being treated right now? That is not what would have happened had he been Muslim, and the anger and grief you are feeling right now would have been turned on the Muslim community, and this is true for the US or Europe.
As for the Ferguson comparison, again, I don’t think that was a matter of grief, it wasn’t a request to cry with us but to spread the news of this injustice because no one else will. It wasn’t, “see this death and how unfair it was, mourn with us”, but that the whole situation that led to it is still there, the killer was supported by the authorities, there is no change being made to prevent this from happening again, and it has and will again and again, help us stop it. What is to there to be educated on in this pilot situation? Germany themselves are changing their airplane protocols and investigating how to better give mental health care. And also, since we’re talking about the understanding of European context, it would be relevant to point out that the US isn’t made of just one issue. Ferguson was a matter of anti-Black racism, while the conversation here is about Islamophobia. It hardly seems fair to throw this on Black Americans too.
I am so fucking done with American tumblr rn.
When Ferguson etc happened, we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you.
When Charlie Hebdo and Germanwings happened, what do you…From what I can tell, OP (and other Europeans) isn’t angry specifically at the amount of sympathy posts – it’s the feeling that the victims are being disrespected by the derailment (“please, stop making this tragedy about yourselves”). That this is all they’re seeing on tumblr when they’re trying to grieve. And they’re right that the majority of posts (at least that I’ve seen) are about the copilot not being called a terrorist. I’ve seen several posts that go “he’s white, so they say it’s just depression”, without even a mention of the tragedy or victims. They’re grieving, but it seems a bit like all that a lot of Americans want to talk about is this issue that isn’t really related to what actually happened, and talk about it in a really American-centered way, and ignore the people who are affected.
It would be one thing if there was just a side note about how it might be different if he were Muslim. But for this to take over the whole topic does seem a bit callous. If people aren’t going to talk about the actual events, then I think for European users’ sakes, they should probably wait a week or two to bring up the comparison; just not talk about the crash. I don’t mean to dismiss Islamophobia at all – it’s a serious issue obviously – but I think that this might not be the best time and place. (And while it’s true that insensitivity on tumblr isn’t near as bad as the constant barrage that POC get, I don’t think it’s best to say “it could be worse for you” to people upset over a mass death.)
And I do think there is a problem on this site with being so America-centered. I’ve seen several European users complain about this – that Americans don’t (and don’t try to) understand that Europe might have a different history with terrorism than the U.S. He apparently was immediately checked for ties, because there are white terrorist groups (in Germany and throughout Europe) that no one hesitates to calls terrorists. I’m not going to speak for them on this subject, but I think listening gives a vital perspective.
And that seems to be (IMO) what the OP was pointing out with the Ferguson comparison – that she was willing to educate herself and listen to Americans, and respect our feelings (“we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you”), and not derail or turn it into something that we didn’t think was an issue.
Right, but how are people making this about themselves? Most people reblogging the Islamophobia post aren’t Muslim and Islamophobia is most definitely a European and German issue as well? I would suspect a number of the people reblogging aren’t even American.
To most people, these posts HAVE been just single notes, one thing they see on their dash that they’ve reblogged, and then moved past it. They may have seen it as the one remotely productive thing they could pass on from this pretty senseless tragedy. And that’s what I meant about the insensitivity, since it seems as if it’d have been okay for them to say these things if they’d also posted something about the victims. But as for the timing issue, who’s to say how long the period of mourning should be? One week, two weeks, someone could legitimately say three weeks is too soon.
I’m not sure I get how the different history of Europe when it comes to terrorism comes into play here, though. Nobody assumed he wouldn’t be checked for political or religious ties, making this a terrorist act, nor are white people excluded from that scrutiny in America. The point to make was, very simply, the observation that you see how he’s being treated right now? That is not what would have happened had he been Muslim, and the anger and grief you are feeling right now would have been turned on the Muslim community, and this is true for the US or Europe.
As for the Ferguson comparison, again, I don’t think that was a matter of grief, it wasn’t a request to cry with us but to spread the news of this injustice because no one else will. It wasn’t, “see this death and how unfair it was, mourn with us”, but that the whole situation that led to it is still there, the killer was supported by the authorities, there is no change being made to prevent this from happening again, and it has and will again and again, help us stop it. What is to there to be educated on in this pilot situation? Germany themselves are changing their airplane protocols and investigating how to better give mental health care. And also, since we’re talking about the understanding of European context, it would be relevant to point out that the US isn’t made of just one issue. Ferguson was a matter of anti-Black racism, while the conversation here is about Islamophobia. It hardly seems fair to throw this on Black Americans too.
I am so fucking done with American tumblr rn.
When Ferguson etc happened, we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you.
When Charlie Hebdo and Germanwings happened, what do you do? You devalue our mourning by saying “blablabla white guy YOU’RE ALL ISLAMOPHOBIC”.NO. STOP IT.
I am so fucking angry.
wut
When I see things like this, I sometimes wonder how Europe has a “dumb American” stereotype when people from Europe say shit like this.
“shit like this”.
Wonderful.
You know what? The only words of understanding I have seen the past few day on my dash were from Germans and French people. I have gotten a few American asks expressing their condolences after that rage post I made went viral.This post
stems from the simple fact that 80 fucking percent of the posts about
the tragedy I saw were things like “Oh, they’re only checking for mental
illnesses bc he is white”Not a single fucking word about the victims. 150 people were killed.
An entire high school class, babies, people who were in that plane and were looking forward to see their loved ones again.This tragedy has hit Germany so fucking hard.
You know what many of us did? We have put flags outside. Half mast. With black ribbons.
You
might not know it, but flags in Germany mean shit is getting serious.
We don’t put flags outside. This may seem weird to literally any other
country of the world, but, outside the world cup or really really bad
tragedies, you don’t see flags. You DON’T.
Schools don’t have them, courts don’t have them, our fucking POLICE STATION does not have them. Normal people don’t have them.
The
last time I remember that we have put some up was Winnenden. A student
went on a killing spree in his school and killed 16 people, including
himself. And let me tell you: Our country was paralized.
So yeah. A
good method to measure the extent of shit going down here is to look at
the number of flags. The more flags. the worse.
And let me tell you, I have been drowned in flags and black ribbon while walking the streets of my city.
And what do we get? No ounce of sympathy.
No one talks about the innocent victims.Instead,
we get told that we’re islamophobic because we don’t say that that
pilot was a terrorist. Oh yeah, “because he was white.”
The definition of terrorism is violence against civilians to achieve political, religious or ideological goals.
Nope, nope, and nope. He did not want to achieve any goal beside killing himself.
That he took all those innocents with him is so fucking awful, but this is not terrorism.
So please, stop trying to make this a thing about terrorism or racism, because it is NOT.Yes,
racism, islamophobia and sexism is awful. I, as a history/political
science major who actually really involved in fighting all this,
wholeheartedly agree.
But it is a complete different area and has
nothing to do with this tragedy. (”fun” fact: The first thing that was
checked was whether he had any terrorist motives like Breivik (a
Christian terrorist btw)).So yeah, I as someone from Europe, may
have not said “shit like this” if more people from outside here had
expressed a little sympathy, if
more people had grieved with us, if more people had actually thought
about the victims instead of trying to twist this tragedy into a thing
that it is not, just to fit their crusade.Please, stop making this tragedy about yourselves.
A few words of sympathy, a bit of empathy for a country that is SHOCKED.
Is that to much to ask for?
Maybe I wouldn’t write “shit like this” then.And what about Spain? 51 people on the plane. That’s terrible.
First: my condolences.
I’ll try to explain why this discrepancy in post tone and quantity. When something like a plane crash or Charlie Hebdo happens, you will see the mourning already, in the mainstream media, in your regular social media feeds. Nobody is spending any energy focusing on how the victims of the crash or the shooting weren’t victims. In your own words, it’s hit you very hard, in your country there are very great and open shows of mourning.
That’s not what happened with Ferguson. That’s why Tumblr is where people are making noise. That’s why attention was brought to the fact that had the pilot not been white, the scrutiny would have been very different. No one’s saying the pilot did it because of Islamaphobia, they’re saying that if he had been a Muslim, the situation would have been very different. The media and general public treatment would have not been a search for motives but an immediate label of terrorism.
People have jumped forward to the overall media significance of this because NO ONE is saying that the passengers weren’t victims. They may not specifically have put up a post mourning them, but has anyone said anything about them otherwise? It may be insensitive, but it would be hard to continuously mourn every public tragedy. You’re angry about US tumblr blogs not being sensitive enough? Imagine if that was your news outlets. Always, for your entire life and generations before. And not just not mourning enough, but actually pulling up each passenger’s history and hinting at maybe them being the cause for this. And all over Facebook, the people you work with and see in school, a lot of them are saying that too. Yeah, that’s what the equivalent situation would be.
You want to come on Tumblr and see what, people raising awareness for what? No one is blaming the passengers for anything. That’s what the Ferguson posts are, for venting, sure, but even more for raising awareness and education. Media blackouts, media spin, these were a huge part of the reasons WHY the posts were being spread. They’re not to say that the victims of anti-Black racism or Islamophobia are more important than others, they’re to point out that they ARE
victims.
I am so fucking done with American tumblr rn.
When Ferguson etc happened, we Europeans educated ourselves, we cried with you.
When Charlie Hebdo and Germanwings happened, what do you do? You devalue our mourning by saying “blablabla white guy YOU’RE ALL ISLAMOPHOBIC”.NO. STOP IT.
I am so fucking angry.
wut
When I see things like this, I sometimes wonder how Europe has a “dumb American” stereotype when people from Europe say shit like this.
“shit like this”.
Wonderful.
You know what? The only words of understanding I have seen the past few day on my dash were from Germans and French people. I have gotten a few American asks expressing their condolences after that rage post I made went viral.This post
stems from the simple fact that 80 fucking percent of the posts about
the tragedy I saw were things like “Oh, they’re only checking for mental
illnesses bc he is white”Not a single fucking word about the victims. 150 people were killed.
An entire high school class, babies, people who were in that plane and were looking forward to see their loved ones again.This tragedy has hit Germany so fucking hard.
You know what many of us did? We have put flags outside. Half mast. With black ribbons.
You
might not know it, but flags in Germany mean shit is getting serious.
We don’t put flags outside. This may seem weird to literally any other
country of the world, but, outside the world cup or really really bad
tragedies, you don’t see flags. You DON’T.
Schools don’t have them, courts don’t have them, our fucking POLICE STATION does not have them. Normal people don’t have them.
The
last time I remember that we have put some up was Winnenden. A student
went on a killing spree in his school and killed 16 people, including
himself. And let me tell you: Our country was paralized.
So yeah. A
good method to measure the extent of shit going down here is to look at
the number of flags. The more flags. the worse.
And let me tell you, I have been drowned in flags and black ribbon while walking the streets of my city.
And what do we get? No ounce of sympathy.
No one talks about the innocent victims.Instead,
we get told that we’re islamophobic because we don’t say that that
pilot was a terrorist. Oh yeah, “because he was white.”
The definition of terrorism is violence against civilians to achieve political, religious or ideological goals.
Nope, nope, and nope. He did not want to achieve any goal beside killing himself.
That he took all those innocents with him is so fucking awful, but this is not terrorism.
So please, stop trying to make this a thing about terrorism or racism, because it is NOT.Yes,
racism, islamophobia and sexism is awful. I, as a history/political
science major who actually really involved in fighting all this,
wholeheartedly agree.
But it is a complete different area and has
nothing to do with this tragedy. (”fun” fact: The first thing that was
checked was whether he had any terrorist motives like Breivik (a
Christian terrorist btw)).So yeah, I as someone from Europe, may
have not said “shit like this” if more people from outside here had
expressed a little sympathy, if
more people had grieved with us, if more people had actually thought
about the victims instead of trying to twist this tragedy into a thing
that it is not, just to fit their crusade.Please, stop making this tragedy about yourselves.
A few words of sympathy, a bit of empathy for a country that is SHOCKED.
Is that to much to ask for?
Maybe I wouldn’t write “shit like this” then.And what about Spain? 51 people on the plane. That’s terrible.
First: my condolences.
I’ll try to explain why this discrepancy in post tone and quantity. When something like a plane crash or Charlie Hebdo happens, you will see the mourning already, in the mainstream media, in your regular social media feeds. Nobody is spending any energy focusing on how the victims of the crash or the shooting weren’t victims. In your own words, it’s hit you very hard, in your country there are very great and open shows of mourning.
That’s not what happened with Ferguson. That’s why Tumblr is where people are making noise. That’s why attention was brought to the fact that had the pilot not been white, the scrutiny would have been very different. No one’s saying the pilot did it because of Islamaphobia, they’re saying that if he had been a Muslim, the situation would have been very different. The media and general public treatment would have not been a search for motives but an immediate label of terrorism.
People have jumped forward to the overall media significance of this because NO ONE is saying that the passengers weren’t victims. They may not specifically have put up a post mourning them, but has anyone said anything about them otherwise? It may be insensitive, but it would be hard to continuously mourn every public tragedy. You’re angry about US tumblr blogs not being sensitive enough? Imagine if that was your news outlets. Always, for your entire life and generations before. And not just not mourning enough, but actually pulling up each passenger’s history and hinting at maybe them being the cause for this. And all over Facebook, the people you work with and see in school, a lot of them are saying that too. Yeah, that’s what the equivalent situation would be.
You want to come on Tumblr and see what, people raising awareness for what? No one is blaming the passengers for anything. That’s what the Ferguson posts are, for venting, sure, but even more for raising awareness and education. Media blackouts, media spin, these were a huge part of the reasons WHY the posts were being spread. They’re not to say that the victims of anti-Black racism or Islamophobia are more important than others, they’re to point out that they ARE
victims.
What’s the point in skipping to the Eleanor scenes if Jasper’s in most of them??
What’s the point in skipping to the Eleanor scenes if Jasper’s in most of them??